Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

topic posted Sun, March 16, 2008 - 2:06 PM by  sAro?
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Hi all. I have a Mac G5 Power PC and I was all ready to install a PCI card for a MOTU 4208 Sound Card, but the PCI card is backward - the notch in the card socket is on the opposite side. So, I'm looking at it and I think to myself...what if I just put it in upside down? It would fit, but would it work? I feel silly even considering it.

It's like the card was built for a left hand mounting machine. I know the MOTU Sound Card and PCI card are a bit dated. I'm just wondering if anyone has a good suggestion aside from pony up for a new PCI card.
posted by:
sAro?
California
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  • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

    Mon, March 17, 2008 - 12:47 AM
    Is your G5 a PCI-X machine or a PCIe machine? Is your 424 a PCI card or a PCIe card?
    • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

      Mon, March 17, 2008 - 8:18 AM
      I figured there would be more info required. I'll check when I get home and report back. Thanks for taking an interest, Jory.
      • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

        Tue, March 18, 2008 - 12:03 PM
        The card is definitely a PCI-424 referenced in the following article.

        PCI-424 Card
        The new PCI-424 card has onboard DSP (MOTU calls it CueMix DSP) specifically dedicated to routing live input signals to whatever outputs in real-time with near-zero latency. This is big news. Any audio interface connected to the PCI-424 card benefits from this DSP, so any of the I/O boxes are capable of providing some of the same kind of functionality as a digital mixer. What this means is that live signals can be sent to and monitored from any of the analog or digital outputs with no sample buffer delay and no hit to your computer’s processor.

        "As powerful as the PCI-424 is, though, it’s not the end-all/be-all to native processor-based music production. There’s been some confusion about what is and isn’t possible with the card’s DSP, so let me clear it up. The 424 card won’t give you the ability to process live input signals through plug-ins with zero latency or increase the plug-in power on mixdown — this is all the domain of your host audio program and computer, which means you’ll still have to deal with sample buffer latency and CPU usage if you want to apply plug-in effects on mixdown or to live tracks played into your computer. However, you can incorporate outboard effects into your monitoring setup with no latency, which is a very cool way of working.

        Other PCI card enhancements include an additional AudioWire expansion port for a total of four, which means you can have a whopping 96 possible input and output connections available per card. Not too shabby."

        www.eqmag.com/article/mot.../jul-03/2068

        I'm not sure where to get the same info that you requested on my G5. If it helps it's a Power PC purchased in late 2006.

        I hope this helps. Again, the notch in the PCI card is correct in spacing, but in the opposite direction.
        • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

          Tue, March 18, 2008 - 2:11 PM
          Ya know? In looking at this, it's only got 24 bit processing. Since my DAW (Live 7) is in 64 bit, is there any point to me using this interface anyway? I'm really confused about the bits bit. Any help on that would be much appreciated. As far as I understand it, taking 64 bit through 24 bit is going to result in 24 bit audio in the long run. Am I way off base or is that about right? Thanks again for your time and attention.
          • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

            Tue, March 18, 2008 - 2:25 PM
            I'm not an expeert, but 24 bit audio is very good. The fact that it is processed by a 64bit processor should not be confused with 24bit audio.

            There is no 64bit audio I am aware of. 24bit audio means there are 24bits of information for each increment of the sound wave. If you are using 92Khz, each of the 92K samples per second has 24 bits of resolution. I think I remember that CDs have only 16 bits of resolution per channel (left and right).

            The 64 bits refers to the native word size of the processor. When an instruction fetches a piece of memory, it gets 64 bits at a time. 64 bit processors can be faster because they move more data in the same number of instructions. But, as long as your processor is fast enough, it won't be a problem whether it is 32 bits or 64 bits. I just needs to be fast enough to keep up with the audio stream and any software you need to run at the same time. Any modern mac is fast enough. Heck, I do 24bit audio on my 667Mhz Titanium powerbook (over firewire). Of course, my cubase se that was acquiring the audio stream was about the only program running... ;-)

            Have you tried contacting the manufacturer to ask if this board is compatible with your model of mac? Did you check their web site? Are there any forums of users that might be dedicated to this manufacturer's products? Have you googled the name of this card together with your model of mac to see if there are hits?
            • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

              Tue, March 18, 2008 - 3:08 PM
              Thanks for the ionfo. That makes a lot more sense to me now. I'll do some more research on my end. I did contact the manufacturer quite a ways back, but I've lost the e-mail. I'm sure there is a compatable card, I just wanted to avoid having to buy it if possible. Thanks again for the info above. Very well explained, Hoco.
          • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

            Sun, March 23, 2008 - 7:55 PM
            "Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5 Tue, March 18, 2008 - 2:11 PM
            Ya know? In looking at this, it's only got 24 bit processing. Since my DAW (Live 7) is in 64 bit, is there any point to me using this interface anyway? I'm really confused about the bits bit. Any help on that would be much appreciated. "

            Yup - the board is no good for you.
            Throw it away ;(

            or better yet - mail it to me ;)

            Actually, I am looking for one.......

            You can purchase the exact one you need directly from MOTU. ($300)
            And sell your's on eBay.. you will get anywhere from $200 to $350 for it......

            They sell on eBay..... I've been hoping to get one fro under $200 - but that has not happened for me yet....

            "As far as I understand it, taking 64 bit through 24 bit is going to result in 24 bit audio in the long run. Am I way off base or is that about right?"

            the extra bits is for headroom..... if the program actually uses it. most programs are really only going to use 32 bits tops,
            so really, dont worry about that until you REALLY need to worry about that. (and you'll know)



            • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

              Fri, April 25, 2008 - 6:25 PM
              Guys, re the sound card compatbility, there are a few versions of the PCI standard, each operate at different voltages (5v and 3.3v) so your Mac will need the correct card. For advice on this I suggest you must check out www.motu.com/techsupport...ompatibility

              I'm in the same boat - I have a pre Intel G5 Power PC so I think I need the PCI-X version (i.e. lower voltage card, but not with the foobarred PCI-e pins).

              Regarding 24bit vs 64 bit etc... all pro audio gear these days takes a word length of 24 bits, except older stuff like DAT machines whose converters were made to reflect the 16 bit CD standard. So CD audio is 44k 16 bit, DVD is 48k 24 bit, HDVD is 24bit 96k/192k etc. Sample rate goes up, but the bit depth is regarded as sufficient for all purposes - because converter circuitry doesn't yet have the ability to capture bigger dynamic ranges.

              The reason you see higher internal bit depths is that when processing the incoming 24 bit stuff, plug-ins and digital mixers need a lot more extra bits to accurately do the floating point math needed to fade, filter and flange the raw audio. Its like 5/7 = 0.7142851429. If my internal resolution was just 24 bit then after calculation 1 I would have 5/7 = 0 (or maybe 1 if I randomly 'dither' it up) in my result box... that's not going to sound great, as any subsequent calculations are going to miss those extra bits a lot -

              So, they use lots of bits internally and then truncate the extra bits before the output. They might also apply dither to the 24th bit, to hide the sonic side effects of chopping off the lower bits.

              Pro-tools mix busses use 56-64 bits, MOTU mastering plugins use 64 bit (even though internally DP5's mixer is only 32 bit), a Ramsa digital desk is 32 bit DSP, a Boss ME-5 will be 16 bit if you're lucky...

              Check out this old article remixmag.com/mag/remix_f...w_computing/ -
              ""The best converters today can't even fill a 24-bit sample with complete accuracy, so the extra bits that a 64-bit double-precision float could provide wouldn't be able to help.” However, for devices such as digital mixers and outboard effects gear, he adds that a 64-bit floating-point signal could be very useful, as it would allow you to master using outboard gear while retaining the full internal precision at each processing step."
  • Bob
    Bob
    offline 6

    Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

    Sun, April 27, 2008 - 8:34 AM
    As near as i can tell from this:
    www.motu.com/techsupport...ompatibility

    None of those cards is "left-hand" mounting. Maybe send it back for a return?
    If your card looks like the ones on that page, then keep in mind that the panel you need to fit the card to is to the left of the PCI slot, not straight-on.
    • Re: Soundcard Question. PCI 424 won't fit Mac G5

      Sun, April 27, 2008 - 10:36 AM
      To clarify, the one that I have is the top one (PCI-424). The PCI slot in my Mac requires that the notch in the "male" plug on the card itself has a notch opposite of that on this pictured card. It really doesn't look like any of the cards pictrued would fir the slot perfectly.

      So graphically in tribe fashion:
      My card looks like this on the plug strip:
      [_______________| |____]


      But my mac wants this:
      [___| |________________]

      Well, I'm pretty much over it. I know I can order one that will fit. Was trying to get by w/out doing that.

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