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A friend of mine recently made the following observation:
The computers may be useful (I have an old Mac) but the cult of Mac isn't at all. In fact, it's allowed Apple to release crappier and crappier products with little real criticism and pushed more affordable (and less gratuitously polluting) equivalents to ipods out of the market. Apple isn't socially conscious, it's yet another way for the socially self-conscious to feed their narcissism and live in an advertisement rather than the real world. It's amazing how it sucks in every single kind of narcissist, including people who consider themselves "radical" and "anti-capitalist" (but, hey, I've found many of these people who promote themselves this way are extremely narcissistic too...the marketing of "radical" and "anti-capitalism" has made it a hollow stance...it makes me sad that some of my friends have contributed to making "anarchy" into a branded product).
The computers may be useful (I have an old Mac) but the cult of Mac isn't at all. In fact, it's allowed Apple to release crappier and crappier products with little real criticism and pushed more affordable (and less gratuitously polluting) equivalents to ipods out of the market. Apple isn't socially conscious, it's yet another way for the socially self-conscious to feed their narcissism and live in an advertisement rather than the real world. It's amazing how it sucks in every single kind of narcissist, including people who consider themselves "radical" and "anti-capitalist" (but, hey, I've found many of these people who promote themselves this way are extremely narcissistic too...the marketing of "radical" and "anti-capitalism" has made it a hollow stance...it makes me sad that some of my friends have contributed to making "anarchy" into a branded product).
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 9:29 AM -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:52 AM1. The camera work in that video gave me a headache and I had to stop about 25% of the way through. Is that a clue about Windows 7?
2. The formula for creating that commercial was so frackin' obvious! -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 12:02 PMARGH! I lasted an entire painful 3 min 20 sec!
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 10:55 AMInteresting, a computer that can run it's competitors products which the competitor can't do itself in some cases is "crappier". Yeah right. A computer with the only OS that can fully utilize more than two processing cores is "crappier" than its competitors or prior versions. Yeah right. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:05 AMOn the subject of 'Macintosh culture' here is an interesting spot of news...
www.macworld.com/article/1..._clow.html
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 6:46 AMDon't be so defensive Krampus - I've worked on Macs for over 10 years. I wasn't saying Macs are crappier than PCs, I'm saying Mac's quality has gone down over the years (so I was comparing Macs to Macs). I really do find it odd that people seem to take any discussion of Apple's shortcomings personally (ditto people who get like that about PCs). It all comes down to what your computing needs are and how tech savvy you are - computers are tools not a social identity! Even if Apple's products are marketed as giving the consumer a prefab social identity. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:19 AMFifi,
I too am a Mac convert. Also, I wasn't referring to you unless you are the "friend of mine" referenced by Mickey. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:33 AMKrampus - Convert? Ah, so it is a religion for you! I'm the "friend" Mickey was referring to. I'm not a convert, my choice of computers isn't a religion for me, computers are a tool that I use. I like Macs but they have their limitations as well, it really depends what you need the tool to do. The main thrust of the cut and pasted conversation was about Apple's branding and how their image doesn't align with reality. What I find odd is the outright hostility some people show when there's any critical discussion of Apple or Macs - it's like they've been personally insulted! -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 9:47 AMI doubt I'll go back to Windows exclusively. I currently run both Snow Leopard and XP on my Mac Pro at home and my iMac at work. Some software I need to do my job is Windows based only. But I personally find Mac hardware and software overall a better product. (I know Windows doesn't make hardware per se for PCs.) Part of the reason for that is a direct result of Mac's ability to control the hardware. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 10:45 AMKrampus - No need to defend your choice, I'm not partisan and I own a Mac that's served me pretty well. There are advantages and disadvantages to both, it depends on one's needs. I'll be investigating other brands of laptops when I can afford a new computer for a variety of reasons and will make my decision around what best suits my needs. I just find it hilarious that so many people buy into Apple's marketing so passionately - even those who self-identify as being individualists and claim they're not sucked into consumerism as identity. From a cultural perspective, it's pretty interesting to deconstruct their advertising and marketing strategies - and their approach to marketing *is* very cult-like and intended to appeal to a narcissistic self image/identity (ipod, iphone...the "I" is very intentional). I mean "narcissistic" in the clinical sense but I certainly don't think all consumers of Apple products are narcissists. Shiny new toys are very appealing and can certainly be fun. My point really is that Apple isn't what it sells itself as (but then neither are most things these days). A lot of people are being used by their technology at this point rather using their technology, it's good to think about these kinds of things. (Think of how environment defines behavior in the Millgram Experiments, for instance. Technologies create environments that can then define our behaviors if we're not consciously choosing our behaviors.) I like technology, just not uncritically :-) -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 2:52 PM"My point really is that Apple isn't what it sells itself as (but then neither are most things these days). A lot of people are being used by their technology at this point rather using their technology, it's good to think about these kinds of things. (Think of how environment defines behavior in the Millgram Experiments, for instance. Technologies create environments that can then define our behaviors if we're not consciously choosing our behaviors.) I like technology, just not uncritically :-)"
St0sheR! You've been reincarnated!!
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 11:22 AMI wouldn't say my new 13" MacBook Pro is "crappier" than any other laptop currently or previously on the market. The new 27" iMacs I just rolled out for an architecture office are anything but "crappier" than the iMac G5s they replace.
I wouldn't say that Apple's push to develop, promote and integrate technologies such as Grand Central and OpenCL that take advantage of unused power of existing machines is completely free of social conscious, either.
Nor would I fault the "cult of mac" for pushing other digital media players out of the market.
While brand promotion and ubiquity do have an impact on consumer buying choices, no brand can survive the long term if ALL they offer is branding and ubiquity. If your products are crap and lack innovation, a competitor will overtake you --we're seeing it now with the death of windows mobile and microsoft exchange.
Microsoft tried to do an end run around this rule by running it's innovative competitors out of business and ultimately failed. Other companies just buy the newcomers out and either rebrand the new products or bury them. But ultimately everyone has to face this reality.
Apple is thriving right now not because of some reality distortion field they've magically enacted around themselves, but because they're really keyed into what the consumer markets want at the moment. Easy to use technology that works and happens to look really good.
If Apple re-released the Newton tomorrow with an add-on phone function it wouldn't sell just because they named it the "iPhone Extreme". They have to consistently deliver real improvements to their products release after release.
Granted, Apple always does something that pisses someone off (like dropping firewire from the new MacBooks), but at the end of the day the products they release are still great -- and that's what's growing the brand. That they manage to do it consistently and reliably.
Oh, and they have the best support in the industry to take care of the missteps along the way -- that doesn't hurt either.
But feel free to go dumpster dive a 386 and install linux and rid yourself of any white or black plastic, glass or aluminum. But don't think it's only the kool-aide that is propping up the Apple brand.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, October 30, 2009 - 1:58 PM"The computers may be useful"
That pretty much ends the argument right there for me. I've never been much of a fanboy about anything or anybody; Apple and especially Jobs included.
When people ask me why I have a Mac or why I think they should get one, my answer is a simple, "The shit just works".
I've known a few people who got lemons, but I've also known a few macs that look like they literally got thrown under a bus (a coworker of mine was apparently prone to temper tantrums) and still worked. Top that off with a lack of malware and viruses, and it's hard to beat.
Honestly though (my Logic 101 class kicking in), your friends' observation sounds to be more opinion. Was he providing references for this observation, or did he just get laughed at in Soop3r C00l Sk8 r@ Caf3? If he's trying to build an argument, he failed right off the bat by Poisoning The Well and creating a Straw Man (Apple consumers are socially-conscious, narcissistic, radical, anti-capitalists).
Makes me wonder what he's a fanboy of if he hates other fanboys so much? (and yes, I know I'm Poisoning The Well right back :) ) The "sanctity" of anarchy, maybe? :D
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:17 AM -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 7:27 AMI just saw this quote in that thread:
"Fifi - you forgot one of the most irritating things about Macs - digital signatures.
Unless Apple pre-approves the software a Mac will simply refuse to run it. If you have the knowledge and gumption to crack yoyr Mac to run other software Apple will sue you.
Interesting stance from a man (Jobs) who still rests on his reputation as one of the early radicals of Silicon Valley."
That's complete bullshit, although they may be confusing the Mac with the iPhone app store.
The trail of clues begins here:
developer.apple.com/mac/libr...ndex.html
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 9:03 AMNot only is that claim confusing the Mac and iPhone, it's also complete BS for the iPhone. If Apple doesn't approve an iPhone app FOR SALE THROUGH THE ITUNES STORE, it can still be had through a variety of sites that supply applications for "jailbroken" iPhones. There is no way for Apple to prevent an application from running on either the Mac or the iPhone if it works.
There have been a couple of extremely vocal WHINERS who have had their application disallowed through the iTunes store. They have tried to stir up a hornet's nest because they did something stupid and can't make money off of it. Somehow, that is having little effect on the 100,000 applications that have been approved for the iPhone. And the media whores who are trying to raise a ruckus over the couple of people who've had their crapplications denied are really nothing but lazy, fat slobs in a room full of healthy (and no so healthy) food, whining that they're starving because they can't buy a damn twinkie. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 1:07 PMActually, that's one of the reasons I think the Droid will fail. They intend to allow "open" application development. Apple just puts a filter up to keep apps out of the app store that:
1) are dangerous to the device to use
2) readily relinquish you right to privacy
3) Interfere with the customer use agreement with ATT
The FCC has verified this filter. And I think it's a good one. Without it, you get those 'whiners' who can't write software properly getting their crap submitted just lie all the rest. And worse, you start getting worms and trojans, too. the average iPhone contains a LOT of juicy data ready for plucking. And app that scans the email addresses could net some spammer a fortune. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:21 AMI disagree entirely about your assertion that Apple's intentions as far as "filtering" apps are entirely to "protect us". If that were true, the Google Voice apps wouldn't have been removed AFTER they'd already been for sale on the App Store for months. Or the 3rd party email clients would have been approved. Or the "iSinglePayer" app wouldn't have been rejected for being "too political". Or there'd be consistency about the bullshit ratings that Apple is requiring on some apps but not others. (I could go on and on and on.)
No, Apple is not merely protecting us, they're censoring developers and preventing us from having access to all sorts of applications, primarily as protection of their own profits.
None of the examples I cited were dangerous, endangered your privacy, or violated the AT&T TOU, not even the GV apps. No, Apple is acting out of greed. And I, for one, am very pissed off about it. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:18 AMAfter checking the books, the FCC disagrees with you. It's a tough call, but I think they're probably better informed than you on this one subject. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:55 AMYeah, cuz the FCC has done a wonderful job so far of protecting us from greedy phone companies (we're down to four now, right?), greedy media conglomerates (how many "competing" stations does Clear Channel own in YOUR market?), greedy cable companies ("Internet service isn't a utility, it's an INFORMATION service, therefore it doesn't need regulating), and so on.
I entirely disagree with the FCC about 90% of the time. They're no better than the FDA: a governmental "overseer" who has been essentially bought and paid for just like our legislative "representatives". -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:44 PMPoint. But regardless of their final decisions and the validity of them, you must admit that they had a substantially better opportunity to get ALL the facts when Apple presented them with EVERY submitted app plus their reasons for rejecting or posting it.
I agree, I thought the ATT breakup was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard: 4 geographical monopolies instead of 1 national monopoly. *sigh* But they DID get there, and they DID do -something-. Personally, I've given up on radio entirely. Once I discovered that I could download podcasts of my favorite shows on XM, I moved to iPod exclusively. Same idea for cable... -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:49 PMAll of us North Americans are getting screwed by telecommunications companies. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 1:21 PM< All of us North Americans are getting screwed by telecommunications companies. >
Now that is the truth.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:31 PMActually, we used to have MANY geographic monopolies, but the FCC has allowed them to buy each other back up to the point where we're now stuck with almost the same situation as before, but without the R&D advances AT&T used to bring as a result of Bell Labs. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:44 PMJory - Canada used to have one government run monopoly. It was far superior to what we've got now in Canada, which sucks even worse than it does for you in the US. All of North America is suffering from being behind the rest of the world in terms of telecommunications infrastructure. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:44 PMI agree. Telecom is a utility. Utilities are a special kind of monopoly/oligopoly that require government interference. It is simply impossible for anyone to compete with them because of the necessary infrastructure. The rest of the world understands this, which is why many countries have access to fiber optic connectivity and we don't (although we were forced to pay for it via surcharges and telecom taxes back in the 90s). We don't have innovative telecom because it isn't in their corporate interests to provide it and no one can simply bring it to us to compete, not even Google (who has tried several times). -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 10:03 PMuh huh ,
Happy Halloween Cult of Mac
Just bought a color classic ( it's a color mac + ) from tom adams at www.macattic.com
telcom ? www.dslreports.com
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:08 PMFifi wrote: All of North America is suffering from being behind the rest of the world in terms of telecommunications infrastructure.
Respectfully, that's both untrue and unfair.
It's true when you compare the U.S. to many countries such as Japan, Korea, Kuwait, and some northern European countries. On the other hand, look at what's happening in developing countries: The number of Internet users in the developing world is only 13 out of 100 (end of 2007). Fixed Internet access in developing countries is still limited, and, where available, often slow and/or expensive. High-speed (broadband) connections are rare and mobile broadband, while increasing steeply in high-income countries, is still insignificant in most developing countries.
However, all of those states have one thing in common: compared to the size of the U.S. or Canada they're tiny in size or population or both. The amount of money needed to roll out the same features of those tiny countries is astronomical. Further, it should be pointed out that in those countries that are ahead of us, communications are either state-owned or tightly controlled, In the U.S. (I'm not sure about Canada) they are not responsible to the people or the government, they're responsible to their stock holders. In the U.S. they must focus (by law) on short-term profits. This, combined with obscene salaries and benefits giving to the people at the very top of these corporations adds a huge expense to the costs of setting up an expanded infrastructure, something those other countries don't have.
So the causes of us being behind some countries is not neglect, it is a combination of size, population, and greed. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 1:51 PMn00n HST • Monday
AT&T sux wet monkey balls . alt to quote the Ozbornes , ". . .can lick my scrotum ."
Yeah , i use a Touch® www.dslreports.com Apple Cooking Up New $30 A Month TV Service?
But specifics seem awfully muddy for now...03:00PM Monday Nov 02 2009 by Karl Bode
According to Media Memo, Apple is pitching the idea of a new, "over the top" $30 a month subscription broadband TV service. The service, which would not be tied to Apple's Apple TV device, would simply be an extension of the iTunes video store. According to the report, Disney is one likely possible partner -- an interesting mention given they're supposedly having some trouble agreeing with cable companies over payment for their "TV Everywhere" online video initiative. Of course cable operators will fight like hell given this would be a direct competitor to both regular cable and TV Everywhere, and broadcasters may not sign up out of fear of threatening their relationships with cable companies.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 4:50 PMCheck out the recent Harvard study commissioned by US regulators. Obviously we're talking about affluent and technologically advanced nations here and not developing ones. It's a bit sad that the US has to compare itself to developing nations to feel superior! Sorry that you find the truth about North America's technology/infrastructure lag unfair but it's very obvious to anyone who pays attention to the world outside the US borders.
Certainly Canadians were much better served by Bell being publicly owned, the privatization has created a nightmare on many different levels. It's not the large size that's problematic in North America, it's the population density and way governments have been approaching the issue. Population density wasn't an issue in providing very affordable phone services to all Canadians before the privatization of Bell and creating the necessary telecommunications infrastructure to do so. The fact that the current neglect is caused by greed doesn't change the fact that neglect of the public and social good has occurred.
www.cbc.ca/technology/s...nd-study.html
Of course, none of this has anything to do with Macs really (apart from how long it took for 3G services to reach North America).
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:26 AMJory - Apple has always tried to control and censor developers. They're certainly no less controlling than Microsoft. They're also notorious for being hostile to working with or supporting artists (I know this from first and second hand experience), which is pretty ironic considering they sell themselves as the "creative" option. And, yes, it's about greed. I'm not saying PC makers aren't driven by greed too, just that it's not that hard to see that Apple's massively promoted image is different than the reality when you use a bit of critical thinking. I find it stunning that people continue to believe that Apple is some kind of benevolent entity that loves and protects them...now that's cult like thinking! Apple is also notorious for getting people to sign away their rights to talk about stuff if they replace things when they explode.
I *do* find it interesting that Apple has managed to make their products so much about identity and that so many people play out their advertising script when any critical discussion comes up.
Anyway, one of my personal criticisms is Apple's total lack of a green conscious (though they're not unique in this). I find this particularly ironic since Jobs was so anti-science concerning his cancer at first, you'd think he'd care about the environment if he's into new age medicine and herbalism and stuff like that! -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:36 AM -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 8:03 AMWow Craig - great of you to link to Apple's claims about how green they are *lol* Do you work for them?
I guess you're not aware that Apple came under a lot of fire for being behind the curve when it came to greening their computers so is now playing catchup to protect their image. Once again it's all about marketing and brand protection.
Here's some discussion from a less biased source...
www.cnet.com.au/how-green-...9292679.htm
"A Greenpeace Guide to Greener Electronics Report released in September ranked Apple 13th, with a point score of 4.1 out of 10. Dragging Apple down was its recycling rate, but that rate has nearly doubled since 2006."
www.greenpeace.org/internat...s-line-up
And just in case anyone's interested in greening up their own tech usage...
planetgreen.discovery.com/go-gr...s.html
Use technology, don't be used by it :-) -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:02 AMEPEAT.net:
www.epeat.net/default.aspx
The criteria:
www.epeat.net/Criteria.aspx
How Apple does:
www.epeat.net/CompanyDetail.aspx
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:01 PMI've followed Greenpeace's Apple bashing for quite some time. Their entire contention has nothing to do with Apple's efforts, instead grading them poorly for refusing to make a big deal about what they DO in green efforts. That's bullshit. It's like saying that because I don't advertise that I'm environmentally conscientious, I'm clearly trashing the fjords. In this way, Greenpeace is no less a terrorist organization than PETA.
Don't get me wrong, I think Greenpeace often has good motives and actions, but their lambasting of Apple for not making advertising their efforts is total bullshit.
And yes, I'd feel the same way if they were going after Dell, Microsoft, or any other company. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:16 PMThis comes out as kind of entertaining...
news.cnet.com/8301-13579_...1224-37.html
P.S. - No, I don't work for Apple but I do come from here, (and have also been a software developer for the Mac and am considering iPhone development):
forums.macosxhints.com/
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:47 PMMy feelings about Apple greenness aren't from Greenpeace (and I've read negative criticism from other sources and have my own thoughts on the matter that have nothing to do with lack of promotion on Apple's part). There's no doubt that computers, phones and mp3players - and we all use at least computers if we're on this forum - have a big ecological impact from top to bottom (mining practices for materials through manufacturing and then consumer use and ultimately disposal). Ultimately all those kinds of changes need to be consumer driven and we can all make changes in how we consume energy and objects through our choices and practices. It seems a bit histrionic to call Greenpeace a terrorist organization (particularly at this point in time, propagandists would be more appropriate if you think their message is propagnda)...that's not that much different from calling Apple terrorists because of their marketing methods are propaganda (most advertising is propaganda, just used to commercial ends instead of political). -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:56 PMI think the point here is that Apple DID have records of it's green efforts buried in a 1000 places on it's website. It was a daunting task, but you could find all the stuff that's currently on their easy to find greenapple site. But that wasn't good enough for GP, they wanted more. They demanded public participation in the greening effort: big banners, websites, TV commercials. In short, they wanted Apple to toot it's own horn and would accept no less from them, even if it meant resorting to lies. Forcing someone to follow your agenda under a threat IS terrorism.... not propaganda. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 1:17 PMTedward - My point is to practice critical thinking and not just mindlessly believe a source with an ulterior motive...like Greenpeace or Apple. I find it hilarious that anyone's calling this terrorism. Apple's certainly earned itself a reputation for some heavy handed tactics to push their product. I simply consider this unethical and anti-social, it's not a form of terrorism even if it is a form of oppressive behavior. The fact that anyone would be so hysterical to claim that Greenpeace were making terrorist attacks on Apple simply highlights how out of proportion some people's blind brand loyalty is and how manipulated by marketing some people are. Other people simply recognize that computers are tools and use them instead of being used by corporations. Terrorism, btw, is about using violence and threats as a means of coercion and is generally politically motivated. (Disinformatin is a form of propaganda, it's not terrorism.) It's either a very sloppy misuse of the word terrorism in an attempt to be emotionally evocative or there's some seriously out of proportion attachment to Apple going on if people really do consider this the same as hurting individual people for political ends. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 1:33 PM<< My point is to practice critical thinking and not just mindlessly believe a source with an ulterior motive...like Greenpeace or Apple >>
Or Fifi. :) -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:09 PMCraig - That's ridiculous since I didn't even post to this tribe initially (though I have been a member for eons). You're the one with what seems like a substantial professional and personal investment in Apple that's creating a rather obvious confirmation bias on your part (only highlighted by the fact that your source for "data" was the Apple site, a marketing tool). Mickey and I were discussing something else in another tribe, I made a comment that was mainly about how people consume Macs (based on people I know) then he asked if he could use what I said. I said "yes" and here we are. I use a Mac myself and have repeatedly said that what computer/tool is better depends on what you're using it for. My Mac had served me reasonably well but I'm definitely going to weigh the pros and cons of other computers too when I buy a new one. I may even end up with a Mac again but that will be because it's the best tool for my needs and not because I'm so identified with a brand identity that I take criticism of a corporation personally. Really, all you're doing is emphasizing my point about some Apple consumers being like cult members and incredibly emotionally invested in a brand. Clearly you're not capable of thinking about Apple in any critical or detached way! -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:27 PMFor somebody trying to be anti-irrationalist, you do spew an awful lot.
I'm still waiting for a fact-based argument. Can you provide that? -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:39 PMWait as long as you like, you're not entitled to anything (particularly after posting marketing as "data" and have been a defensive dick from the start). I'm not "anti-irrationalist", I love all kinds of irrational stuff. I just find it fascinating that so many people use a product to define their identity rather than simply being themselves and their identity being a result of who they are and not what they consume. It's interesting to observe, particularly when people are being emotionally manipulated by advertising and branding. It's not only Apple that does this, of course. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:53 PMI'll take that as a 'no.' ;)
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:58 AMApple may not be terribly great to work directly with as a developer, but they've not censored them previously. The Mac's success was built upon the fact that developers could build tools necessary to make it a fantastic platform to work on.
The iPhone's success is built upon the fact that it is an excellent user experience (which no other mobile device has), but we are locked into a single mode of dealing with it. We cannot use the iPhone on anyone's network but AT&T's (which sucks ass), we cannot install applications that third parties have not had explicitly rubber stamped by Apple (and even that is subject to change at Apple's whim). Honestly, I'm sometimes shocked we can listen to music that wasn't purchased through iTunes, but I think the marketplace forces Apple's hand on that one. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:36 PMJory - My experience with Apple is that they are (or at least were), we're going back a couple of years now, very closed to collaboration with artist/programmers. Most artists (excluding commercial artists like graphic designers) I know who do high end digital work now use PCs - but obviously anyone who does any kind of programming and technological boundary pushing is not the average computer user. Like I said, computers are a tool and it depends on what your needs are.
Yes, iphones are sparkly toys and fun....no doubt about it.
Heh, I wouldn't put it beyond the forces of evil to collude to make us all pay for music we buy over and over and over again. Of course, that's mainly driven by the major labels and their lobbying front groups. Greedy corporations and lawyers seem to hate music almost as much as they hate sharing and musicians! It's interesting to watch the struggle between open source and sharing efforts and those who would like to control all our experiences as a means to milk us ...certainly the territory around copyright and fair use is changing (not necessarily to the consumer's benefit). -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 12:49 PM"Wherever many men go, the clever can find a way to levy a tax upon it"
(Jefferson, I think.)
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:03 AMBob - I'm a woman and I was also talking about Apple's products in general and not just their computers. Plus, the starting point for the conversation wasn't Mac vs PC - but it's interesting how programmed by advertising people are to jump to that immediately since the starting point for my part of the conversation was about branding, and social and personal identity vis a vis Mac (vis a vis the reality of what people doing high level creative work are using these days).
Just so you know, I own a Mac but started out on a PC (hell, I started out with huge floppy discs and have also worked on Macs that are now antiques). Both PCs and Macs have come a long way and both can be useful tools depending on your needs and skills. Just so you know, my observations about "radical anti-capitalists" and "narcissism" are in regard to some friends of mine (one in particular who considers herself an anarchist and anti-capitalist who fetishizes her Mac and has totally fallen for the cult of Mac). While I appreciate the cliché image of me you've constructed to hate, it's very far off the mark of who I am. It's making your claims not to be a fanboy pretty hollow too. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:35 AMBtw - to get very technical about it...Macs *are* PCs (personal computers). -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 11:03 AMThe other thing worth noting is that the main reason Mac OS can't be run on other computers is because Apple won't let people, it refuses to license the OS. That's why it's so ironic when someone believes that Apple is "pro alternative" and "pro competition" - they're incredibly closed source.
"The modern Mac, like other personal computers, is capable of running alternative operating systems such as Linux, FreeBSD, and Microsoft Windows, though Apple does not license Mac OS X for use on non-Apple computers."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh
If you've got a Mac, enjoy it. It may well be the perfect computer for you. Just ask yourself why you need so badly to believe what their marketing department is selling you if you're buying into it and feel offended if someone dares discuss Apple critically.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:09 PM"Bob - I'm a woman"
Please forgive me for the English language's lack of a non-gendered impersonal pronoun. I sincerely meant nothing by it.
"my observations about "radical anti-capitalists" and "narcissism" are in regard to some friends of mine (one in particular who considers herself an anarchist and anti-capitalist who fetishizes her Mac and has totally fallen for the cult of Mac)."
Ok, so the impetus for your argument is personal. Got it.
"While I appreciate the cliché image of me you've constructed to hate, it's very far off the mark of who I am. It's making your claims not to be a fanboy pretty hollow too."
If you want to talk about my fanboy days, we'll have to reach back to the Commodore Amiga. (Not far if a reach for me, as I have four in my basement :D )
So, you may not be a "fanboy" of anything, but you have admitted that what you're going on about is a personal thing with this friend of yours. I notice that you still really haven't backed up much of what you said, and are still resorting to Poisoning The Well and creating a Straw Man of anyone who replies. So my inclination, given that you do this with complete strangers, is that this is primarily an emotional reaction to this anarchist friend of yours and not actually backed up by anything. My guess is that you see her claims of being anarchist and anti-capitalist as thin or empty and due in part to her "fetish" of Macs. You tried to point this out to her, got nowhere, and now you're here attempting to get it across to someone in the hope that if you can find agreement in others, you'll have the higher ground. Am I close?
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:26 PMBob - I was in a casual conversation in another tribe with members I know quite well and it was Mickey who posted what I said over here and out of context. I'm not trying to poison anything and think all kinds of PCs can be good - Mac's included. However, you seem quite full of venom and assumptions and quite a few people here DO seem to have taken on a brand as their personal identity.
Maybe Mickey was trying to stir the pot - ask him directly what his intent was - I merely let him repost a ranty observation I'd made elsewhere and then popped in to find that people were projecting all kinds of stuff onto my words. My perspective on this is cultural, I write about culture professionally. And, yes, I often am inspired by observing people I know when they're examples of a larger trend or phenomenon.
Really, I find it pretty retarded that anyone would get their panties in such a bunch over this. But feel free to continue to have hissy fits because someone doesn't bow down at the altar of Apple. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 2:29 PMOh, and I'm considering buying a new computer soonish since my Mac is coming to the end of it's utility so have been considering all my options. Heretical, I know.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sat, October 31, 2009 - 1:19 PMI'm not sure mac is at all "anti-capitalist" simply pro-competion, pro-alternative, anti-monopoly and oh yes, it is a better OS . . . . -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:06 AMMacs are way better than the alternative.
They're much much faster, stronger, and more reliable...
There's no argument,, unless you want to use the lame reasoning that most people use PCs.. So???
That doesn't make PCs better.
Yeah, there's a cult,, and there is good reason.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Sun, November 1, 2009 - 7:43 AMMick - You've drunk the kool-aid if you think Apple is really pro-competition, pro-alternative and anti-monopoly. It may well be the best personal computer for your computing needs, it's not a better OS for many others and Apple is notoriously controlling. Also, I never said Apple is anti-capitalist - I said a friend of mine who is a self proclaimed anarchist and anti-capitalist fetishizes her Mac - not for what it can do but for how it makes her look - which seems very ironic to me. But people are like that.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 2:22 PM -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Mon, November 2, 2009 - 5:21 PMKrampus - Yes, I usually enjoy The Onion's humor - whether it's pointed at Microsoft or Apple...they're both big, greedy, controlling corporations that want you to believe that consuming their product gives you an identity. Clearly they've done a very good job of branding themselves as lifestyle product and generating an emotional (irrational) attachment amongst consumers, which is the whole point of branding in the first place.
www.theonion.com/content/v...olutionary
www.theonion.com/content/n...phone_only
Enjoy :-)
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 7:25 AMI want one of those iPhones!
Just kidding.
I'm not in disagreement on your branding points, Fifi. You don't see Windows stickers on cars do you?!?!
There is a new phone on the market, sold through Verizon only, that is expected to be a serious competitor to the iPhone.
What I like about Apple is that they are going out-of-their-way to make their products compatible with third party products like Google Calendar, etc. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Tue, November 3, 2009 - 9:35 AMKrampus - Well there are PC loyalists too and Apple isn't the only one that uses this strategy, they're just annoying because their advertising is so ubiquitous (how much of what you pay for a computer is advertising budget? in this respect they're not much different than Nike, who made their shoes in sweatshops until publicly shamed and spend more on advertising than they do their actual product). I just find it interesting that Apple's marketing and branding efforts are so effective that even some people who self identify as being anarchists and "anti-consumerist" get sucked in. It's the level of internalization of the brand identity and defensiveness/pride that I find interesting and worth discussing. (Not that people don't use Gucci handbags or Nikes shoes for the same purpose -there are many ways to buy an identity and signal our affluence in our culture.) It's pretty normal behavior for adolescents who are experimenting with identities but it seems have extended pretty far into the adult population.
Apple doesn't really go out of their way to make their products compatible, they only do so when it's profitable or may detract from profits if they don't. For instance, their move into making their computers able to run software that's generally used in business environments is an attempt to capture some of the business market since they've reached saturation in their current market (ditto for ipods, one reason why built-in redundancy is so important to continual profit making). Apple would prefer everyone have to use their programs and hardware - it's one reason they don't license their OS to be used on other hardware.
Also, Google is a pretty poor example since Apple rejected Google Voice app for the iphone (or did you know this already?). Sure they've tried to shift the blame to AT&T but that's just blame shifting considering Apples very considerable corporate weight. And, btw, it's Google that goes out of their way to make their products compatible with multiple platforms.
www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/...ts-fault/
I'm interested in the Droid - which I assume is the new phone you're talking about - but it sounds like it still needs lots of work to be competitive with the iphone. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 9:18 AMOh my god....this is the dumbest thread ever. What is your point here, Fifi? To insult us all and lump us into the same category? We're all just a bunch of mindless, Apple whores? Totally sucked in by advertising?
Give me a break.
Apple computers are faster, more reliable, run better, look better, are quiet, easier to use, etc. If there was another OS or computer manufacturer that could best this, I would own one of their computers, period. This has nothing to do with Apple's stupid commercials or some perceived coolness factor. I personally got sick of my Windows PC's breaking down and getting viruses. I checked out my brother's mac and was instantly hooked. I've never been happier with a computer purchase. I couldn't care less about being "cool".
Apple is not perfect. Apple's goal is to make as much profit as possible. That's why I own lots of Apple stock, and am VERY happy with that.
Get off your high horse, and build your own, uber-green, linux PC if you dare try to create something better. -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 12:55 PMAll I know is that I have to use XP at work and OSX at home.
XP is just simply not a good OS. No polish, no refinement. They can't even get the graphic working on it right. Moving around applications is slow and clunky. When I use a Mac, I can feel the efficiency of Unix under the hood.
-troy -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:50 PMYou're all my friends (most of you, anyway). To quote my friend Bill S. Preston: Please do be excellent to each other. I didn't mean to start a fight. Only a conversation.
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:56 PM+2 or 3?
I love my MBP and have Vista installed on a Bootcamp partition. Rarely boot into Vista except when I absolutely have to! Have used Windoze for ages (1991.. present), Used to support OS/2. Wonder what the world would be like if IBM had gotten off their asses and pushed OS/2 to the world. Clearly a far superior OS back in the day when M$ was pushing their GUI shell on top of DOS. Hell, back then we jokingly referred to Macs as Macintoys. I spent HOURS researching laptop computers before spending a bundle on my Mac and have absolutely no regrets! My GF bought a cheap PC-laptop and constantly has problems with Vista and software issues!
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:52 PMMickey - I will have my revenge on you for this you...you...evil man and pot stirrer you! This is like being stuck in a tribe of astrologers....sigh...I should have known better than to even try once you'd set this crystal ball in motion...did you hear that the astrology app was the top seller on the iphone ;-) -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 1:55 PMJoking btw way Mickey. I'm just going to bow out - I think anyone who's going to get what I was saying has gotten it (and we've had a laugh and conversation) and the others just think I was talking about them when I mentioned narcissists... Me and my Mac will go elsewhere... -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Thu, November 5, 2009 - 8:17 PM. .I B M bought out Lotus in Cambrige , Mass and is still supporting Lotus Notes® . My friend was a developer . OS/2 was okay . Go figger . CP/M was on every disk you shoved in to a Kaypro® or an Osborne® . It was bombproof, though , and remains my fav O S
i can't wait until I B M chipsets are back in Macs® . After all , it is the old Motorola / I B M PowerPC 63000 chipet ( think Mac + ) that is in the NASA Rovers ( Spirit and Discovery ) that just will simply not die on Mars . It's been how many years ? They were suppose to last ≠ 9 0 days . Uh , remember H A L from the movie 2001 ? What are the neXt three letters after H A L ?
And what was that about cult of Mac® ? ∞ -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 2:34 PMStosher: ". .I B M bought out Lotus in Cambrige........................"
WTF are you rambling on about? Have you taken your meds today? -
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 10:28 PMHas he ever taken his meds?
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Re: The cult of Mac...
Fri, November 6, 2009 - 11:04 AMIt turns out that Apple and Sarah Jessica Parker stole it all, anyway.
www.appleinsider.com/article...yne.html
