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Yeah. Kernel Panics. About 20 of them in the last couple of days.
G5 twin 2.3, OSX 10.4.11
Sometimes the grey curtain, sometimes the Grey curtain followed by a bunch of code "Kernel unresolved trap" etc Sometimes just a total freeze followed by the fan noise.
Seems to happen more when the computer is warmed up but not sure. Sometimes it's even freaking out halfway through startup, other times it'll be good for a couple hours. I managed to get in a carbon copy clone in between panics, so no data worries. Phew.
I ran extended apple hardware test (once) and everything passed. I re-seated the ram and took out all the chips except the two it came with. I disconnected all the peripherals and the internet. Still no joy.
The only major thing I've done recently is installed Firefox 3 - which incidentally has been a TOTAL pain in the butt in so many ways.
Its a weird one. Luckily I'm still on Applecare so they are the first call in the morning. But I could do without this, I have lots of work to do.
There's a log that gets made somewhere of all these panics. Anyone know where to find these and how to read them? Anyone curious / ideas?
AA
G5 twin 2.3, OSX 10.4.11
Sometimes the grey curtain, sometimes the Grey curtain followed by a bunch of code "Kernel unresolved trap" etc Sometimes just a total freeze followed by the fan noise.
Seems to happen more when the computer is warmed up but not sure. Sometimes it's even freaking out halfway through startup, other times it'll be good for a couple hours. I managed to get in a carbon copy clone in between panics, so no data worries. Phew.
I ran extended apple hardware test (once) and everything passed. I re-seated the ram and took out all the chips except the two it came with. I disconnected all the peripherals and the internet. Still no joy.
The only major thing I've done recently is installed Firefox 3 - which incidentally has been a TOTAL pain in the butt in so many ways.
Its a weird one. Luckily I'm still on Applecare so they are the first call in the morning. But I could do without this, I have lots of work to do.
There's a log that gets made somewhere of all these panics. Anyone know where to find these and how to read them? Anyone curious / ideas?
AA
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SF Bay Area
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 1:50 AMIs it panicking booting off a different hard disk/system? How have you verified that the original RAM have not gone bad?
The panic logs are in /Library/Logs--view them using the Console app in your Mac's /Applications/Utilities folder.
Note that with G5s you have to be sure that you don't have a coolant leak! That can cause considerable flakiness before the motherboard corrodes and shorts out completely...the CPUs will get too hot and be flaky as the coolant slowly leaks out.
To test RAM chips for extended lengths of time and to find specifically flaky banks, you can use the memtest app that can optionally be installed with Applejack 1.5. -
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 2:47 AMmany thanks... will try booting off the clone... although I did look at disk utility and the main drive passed verification including smart status.
will run memtest. Have a vague recollection of using this app years ago.....
as for the coolant leak - how can I tell?
Will post panic logs.
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 4:16 AMWell, there it is. I ran memtest from the command line environment - as the instructions suggest, so as to free up the most memory possible for testing - and set it to do 5 passes. Result - FAIL - on passes 3,4 and 5.
It's interesting that this shows a flaw that Apple extended hardware test did not reveal.
I'm not sure if RAM is covered by applecare, presumably it is, but it is cheap to get another 512. I think I'll go get some tomorrow, it's quicker than messing around with applecare.
Big thanks for putting me on the right track!
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 10:54 AMAppleCare covers whatever components were installed at time of purchase. If the ram was added afterwards, no. But...
G5 memory needs to be installed in pairs, if you have more than 2 chips, you should test the pairs as sets, by themselves, to determine which set are bad. As I recall a 4 GB replacement kit (two 2 GB sticks) was really damn cheap from OWC right now (macsales.com).
Couple of other points, while we're on the topic:
1. SMART isn't so. SMART fails to detect 90% of hard drive problems. When it DOES detect a problem, listen. That drive is irreparable. But by no means accept a SMART pass as a reliable statement on the health of the drive.
2. Disk Utility ONLY tests the volume structure itself. If the platters, blocks and controller chips are the hardware of a hard disk drive, then the Volume structure, bit map, etc are the software. Usually when a hardware failure is occurring the volume structure will be damaged, but not always. So again, Disk Utility will generally report a problem, but not always. Also note that repeated kernel panics will damage the volume structure itself.
DiskWarrior has the advantage of reporting bad blocks while it's rebuilding the volume structure, so if that is the hardware failure that is occurring (and that is the most common hardware failure) it will report that. TechTool Pro will test for this as well with a very time consuming surface scan of the platters.
3. There's a GUI wrapper for memtest called Rember. It's free and you can find it on MacUpdate. It's not as thorough as a single user mode execution, however it's worked pretty damned reliably for me.
4. Random problems are usually (in order of probability) Hard Drive (tho hdd damage usually brings with it general sluggishness), RAM / memory or heat (logic board fried).
5. The Hardware Test that comes with the machines is, like TTP's hardware tests, fairly useless.
If you detach all external components, booted off an external system (and had the problem reoccur), confirm the health of the hard drive and the ram, then the problem is most definitely somewhere on the logic board. At that point it's logical to take the machine in for repair. Whether it's a coolant leak, or a fried SATA controller is kind of pointless, as they'll still end up replacing the whole logic board anyway. -
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 3:18 PMKernel Panics are the result of a hardware incompatibility. So think of what hardware is connected to or added into your Mac.
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 5:30 PMFirst, thank you for all this info and for your trouble. You are most kind!
Update....
So my first call was to Powermax in Oregon, from whom I bought the G5, they confirmed that the failed RAM was indeed the stock ram that was shipped from apple, and said that my applecare should cover it.
Next up, Applecare. The kind lady I spoke to at applecare didn't know what a kernel panic was. It's been a few years since I called applecare, and from the difficulty I had in understanding her accent, sounds as though they've outsourced tech support. I hate to say this, but this ain't no free service: When I pay $300 for high level Apple tech support, is it unreasonable to expect the tech at the other end to know what a fucking kernel panic is? I feel sorry for these people probably getting peanuts to do a highly skilled job - and so was polite, but Apple should know better. Anyway she said take it in to your local Apple store.
I called my local Apple store, they did not have any of my kind of RAM in stock.
So I went back to Powermax in Oregon, scored 2GB of RAM for $90, no tax, free shipping, it's on its way.......... ain't nothing like a credit card to save your ass eh? LOL
Powermax has always been 100% awesome to deal with and they have my very highest recommendation. -
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Mon, January 5, 2009 - 5:38 PMOh yeah, I actually have Diskwarrior, I purchased it a couple years ago but haven't used it in a while, assuming (mistakenly, thank you for the technical explanation) that Disk Utility did what was necessary.
I also have Techtool, but the version that was supplied with Applecare on the G5 doesn't work on this computer and crashes it..... :)
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Re: Colonel Panic is in the house....
Tue, January 6, 2009 - 12:35 AMHope the new RAM does the trick. Yeah, memtest is much more comprehensive than the machines normal boot check of RAM. Plus, it is interesting that it failed on later passes...probably a heat related problem with the ICs on the RAM sticks you tested. Note that with heating issues, it is best to take the same "failing" RAM and test them in another machine to verify that they fail there too...there is always an outside chance that some other component is failing in the memory bus control...although that is much rarer than RAM just failing.
For those who don't have memtest handy, switching RAM stick order can often point to the bad sticks in a sequence...although, in the case of required pairs, that really is more problematic than just using memtest to find the culprit.
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