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I must have been way outta the loop cause when I bought a Mac, on the the biggest reasons was so that I wouldn't have to deal with viruses/trojans anymore, but as I browse around more mac sites, I realize I might be too comfortable with this thought. So I'd like to ask what do I need and what programs would you recommend?
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Unsu...
Re: What do I need for protection?
Wed, August 9, 2006 - 1:01 PMAs far as I know, there is no currently updated anti-virus software for the Mac sold to individual users. Each time one gets recommended, all the mac faithful gather to shoot it down and declare it a ripoff because 'there are no viruses for the mac and there never will be', along with accusations that the only viruses out there were created by said companies as a scam to sell their software. Thus, there is no business model for making or selling such software. It's completely a pointless waste of time as a business endeavor, whether or not such exploits exist.
So to protect yourself, you need to enable the software firewall, and I recommend a hardware firewall as well. Then, every software you get, you need to vette it yourself, examining the code in a hex editor, running it in a separate secure sandbox system off network and examining its file system and network behavior, and so forth, before using it.
Also make sure to download and install all apple security updates immediately and don't be running an unsupported system like Jaguar, don't run Mac Classic which is insecure, don't use file sharing or other questionable software, stay away from Firefox, etc. It's also helpful to locate and monitor the underground boards where Mac malware code and exploits are posted and bragged about, and monitor your system for the files and behaviors they talk about. -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Wed, August 9, 2006 - 1:53 PMnot quite so true.
Intego Virus Barrier is adequate. I use it for cleaning Word Macro Viruses. Intego is, however quite alarmist in their press releases.
Norton has an Anti-V client. I recommend against it. They've managed to automatically update virus defs in the past that did fun things like (false positive) declare your virtual memory swap files as infected and quarantine them out from under the kernel, thus panicing your machine. Good job Symantec!
Virex is only available in 5+-seat license packs.
On systems I am concerned about, I recommend Clam AV - it's an open source / free virus scanner which is only limited in that it can't actually "clean" files. The only option is to detect and/or quarantine. If you handle a lot of Word documents from untrusted sources, it's probably not adequate, but it certainly will do for watching your system until the first major threat hits the platform.
oh, and always wear a condom when surfing hacker sites.
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Wed, August 9, 2006 - 4:22 PMTrog,
"...stay away from Firefox..."
I'm gonna need an elaboration on that, please when you have a minute mate. I have not seen much in the way (or none actually) of fear about F-fox being a virus magnet or a Malware booter. Are your concerns more about the extentions and such or is it even more basic?
Really intreagued here. !!!
Rod A. noobility personified -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Wed, August 9, 2006 - 4:34 PMAnd an outgoing packet/port access sniffer is a good idea, lot's of the uber nerds here recomend "Little Snitch", (lookin at you Trog). It's cheap insurance and you know who yer 'Mac is talking to.
later, and still me. -
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Unsu...
Lil Snitch
Wed, August 9, 2006 - 4:46 PMOh yes, thanks! Lil Snitch is completely essential. It is constantly alerting me to programs that just want to have a quick chat with a server somewhere. USually innocuous, to check for new updates or whatever, but I much prefer when they ask first.
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Unsu...
Re: What do I need for protection?
Wed, August 9, 2006 - 4:43 PMI was throwing that out just to be controversial mainly, but there is substance to it. Some people have been told that Firefox has no security flaws, but it's not true, it just has a different set. Historically, Firefox has been slower to fix security flaws that have been discovered, perhaps since they have no budget and few developers that can really fix that sort of thing. But all browsers have flaws, and most of them probably haven't been discovered by the good guys yet.
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Thu, August 10, 2006 - 1:13 PM"
As far as I know, there is no currently updated anti-virus software for the Mac sold to individual users. Each time one gets recommended, all the mac faithful gather to shoot it down and declare it a ripoff because 'there are no viruses for the mac and there never will be', along with accusations that the only viruses out there were created by said companies as a scam to sell their software. Thus, there is no business model for making or selling such software. It's completely a pointless waste of time as a business endeavor, whether or not such exploits exist" -Trog
You wake up on the wrong side of the file system yesterday Trog?
=B-) -
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Unsu...
Re: What do I need for protection?
Thu, August 10, 2006 - 1:38 PMHey, it's true though. There's not a single virus scanner out there that even bothers to check for the latest exploits on the Mac.
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Wed, August 9, 2006 - 6:35 PMThe most important thing you can do is not have the account you use for day-to-day use be an admin account.
Create an account for "Shannon" and create an account for "Shannon the admin." Log into the later when you have to add software, or anything else that requires admin access. If "Shannon" is just a regular, non-admin user, then you'll be safe from most of the dangerous exploits which exist. -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Thu, August 10, 2006 - 3:20 PMThank you again you guys for coming through with info and answers. Appreciate it (have I said that enough?). Now I just have to figure out how to work these programs and learn about exploits. Man, this transition thing is difficult. I have a hard time getting out of the PC mindset.
I don't mean to keep bugging you all with questions, but what kind of spyware/adware program would you recommend? -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Thu, August 10, 2006 - 6:21 PMi recommend avoiding spyware and adware applications whenever possible. -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Fri, August 11, 2006 - 12:11 AMlol, woops. I was a little too tired when I posted that. You know what I mean though.
Wouldn't Lil Snitch only tell me if adware/spyware was trying to communicate out? I'd prefer something that prevented it from being installed in the first place. -
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Unsu...
Re: What do I need for protection?
Fri, August 11, 2006 - 12:47 AMYes, that's all Li'l Snitch does.
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Sat, August 19, 2006 - 12:08 PMNone of the current offerings from the Mac OSX anti-mal-ware vendors do anything. They are selling "sugar pills" for non-existent disease!!! There is more mal-ware in the commercial apps than in the underground(for macs) As has been mentioned:
lil Snitch is good for detecting apps that call home without your permission.
Using Safari with the "Block Popups" mode enabled is the best assurance against problems at the moment.
Keeping up with the chatter here is probably your best starting point....
If something does come up, I'm sure the responsible voices here will communicate what the best solutions are very quickly when there is a need.
=B-)
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Sun, August 13, 2006 - 6:04 PMHi Scooter,
How does that work? Why does having the two accounts protects me from exploits? As you can see, I'm not very tech savvy.
Thanks. -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Sun, August 13, 2006 - 9:27 PMthere are three levels of access on your system (from practical experience):
User, Admin, Root (aka System).
Users have free read / write access to pretty much anything within their Home folder, and will likely never be prompted to enter a password for any changes made there.
Admins have the same access to their Home folder, plus read / write to the contents of /Applications and most of /Library, as well as a little bit of /System. They are not prompted for enter a password for changes to these locations.
Root has full access to the entire system. Root accounts are disabled by default and are recommended to stay disabled unless you have a specific reason and know what you are doing.
What that means in a practical sense, is that if you are using a restricted (aka "Standard" or "Managed") account you can only screw up the contents of your Home folder. While your data / documents might be hosed, you are not going to inadvertently install something that torpedos the system. If you attempt to install something that affects the area outside of your dominion, you will be prompted to enter an Admin's username and password.**
While if you are using an Admin account, you may be fooled into installing something that affects the system as a whole without ever being prompted for a password. Likewise, if you try to install something that modifies files owned by Root, you will be prompted for your password.**
By the way, entering your Admin username & password allows that account to temporarily assume the permissions level of the Root user. If you are unsure of the source of the application you are running that asks for it, it would be best to decline.
Oh, and another note. By default, the individual users on a system -- whether they are Admin or Restricted -- do not have access to read / write each other's files. If you create a restricted user, you pretty much need to assume that your new account won't have access to your previous documents. (You can bypass this by dumping the relevant materials into the Shared user folder, or by booting from an external drive and doing a Get Info on your internal drive and selecting "Ignore Permissions on this Volume".)
**This is assuming that the system is functioning correctly and that there isn't some unknown / unpatched security hole that allows an intruder to bypass the security structure. To my knowledge, the only currently *known* examples of this are a bug that Apple patched in the 10.4.7 update, and the Wireless card exploit documented in another thread. There may be others, and you may get hit by a car crossing the street tomorrow. It's an imperfect world.
Does this make sense? I'm glossing over a lot, but hopefully giving you the general picture. -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Tue, August 15, 2006 - 7:27 AMThanks a lot for that post Mr K. I have been using the regular Admin account, but will now switch to a regular user account. So I'm assuming things like keystroke loggers need an admin password? I am sorry for the over-worrying. You have to understand though that I come from a history of virus and trojan infections, and have learned to be overly cautious.
I will stop bugging you all with questions, and do some googling. -
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Unsu...
Re: What do I need for protection?
Tue, August 15, 2006 - 9:16 AMOn the Mac, most keystroke loggers hope that you have "enable access for assistive devices" checked in the Universal Access (handicapped) control panel is the system preferences. Unless you need it, it's best to keep this UNchecked as it allows other programs to monitor everything you do. -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Sat, August 19, 2006 - 12:22 PMHmmm didn't know that!!! Thanks!
Maybe this explains why the documentation for the UA APIs for AppleScript & other development environments are so vauge... I recently needed to write a "keep-alive" applet for Second_Life and had a heck of a time getting good info on what the UA API supported....
Got a good solution running now that does not need UA API...
=B-)
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Thu, August 17, 2006 - 6:41 PMMr. Kitty,
Thank you for the post. It all makes a lot of sense, you made me feel right at home.
Emme
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Fri, August 18, 2006 - 7:52 AMHow do I create a Shered user folder? -
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Fri, August 18, 2006 - 8:21 AMthe shared user folder already exists
HD/Users/Shared/
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Re: What do I need for protection?
Sat, August 19, 2006 - 12:11 PMVery good description of the user security model in OSX...
=B-)
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